From another point of view, I have never bought into the black walnut daily philosophy. Why would I give my dogs something that can KILL worms in SMALL doses - every day - if they don't have worms? This is considered safe because it's from a tree?
for those interested in black walnut
Here is a site address that was sent to me by a friend whose is a world of knowledge, thank goodness for him or I would probably be lost. lol
http://www.viable-herbal.com/herbdesc/1bwalnut.htm
enjoy.
Mags
Black Walnut
From another point of view, I have never bought into the black walnut daily philosophy. Why would I give my dogs something that can KILL worms in SMALL doses - every day - if they don't have worms? This is considered safe because it's from a tree?
same question
Why would you give your dog preventative heartworm pills, if they don't have worms?
Mags
My point again..
My point is... why is black walnut better than a chemical? It is still toxic. So what if it comes from a tree, it's still a toxic substance that you are giving to your dog every day.
worms
Obviously, the point of preventative is to PREVENT. Heartworms are nothing to mess around with. They can be deadly. It is ridiculous for any owner to allow their dog to get heartworms in this day and age, when preventing them is so easy. Is there a natural treatment that cures a heartworm positive dog?
I agree with Lisa...black walnut is toxic. If you think traditional oral preventatives are toxic, then what is the difference?
worms
Black Walnut is toxic but only in large amounts, my dogs only get it during mosquito season, so the build up in their system is limited.
The chemical versions of preventatives are toxic as well and while they build up in the dogs systems it is also bringing down their immune systems for other viruses.
To answer Bree's questions about a natural treatment, yes there is and it's called Paratox.
And to answer the other question as to what's the diffence? It matters to me what I put into my dogs body. It's MY choice to use black walnut. And the purpose of my post in the first place was to let people on this board know that there is an alternative to chemically treating or preventing the dreaded Heartworm.
Mags
another site to check out
http://www.theherbsplace.com/heartworm.html
This is another very interesting site for herbal Heartworm choices.
Mags
got another one
this one gives you a natural bug spray, it will keep the mosquitos from biting your dog. Thus giving you another natural preventative. Again I got this addi from that friend of mine.
http://www.goldenmountainbotanicals.com/recipes.htm
I'll be using this one too....
Mags
Toxicity
Black walnut is toxic enough to kill worms. A commercial heartworm preventative is toxic enough to kill worms. Both are toxic! This 'natural' word is thrown around too often I think. In my mind, 'natural' doesn't equal 'safe'.
just out of curiosity
What do you use for heartworm Lisa?
Mags
the whole glass houses concept...
i probably shouldn't even post here and i'm really not doing this to stir up trouble but i've gotta say it...
maggie, it matters to ALL of us what goes into our pets and it's OUR choice (for those of us that do) to use prescription heartworm preventatives.
why does this always have to turn into a 'my way is better than your way' sort of thing? hard enough to believe, i know, but we're all trying to make the best decisions for us and our own pets... just like you are with yours.
yes, i know... i shouldn't have read this thread because i'm really not interested in administering black walnut to my girl...
I never said I was right
I only posted some suggestions for an alternative.
others were the ones that started the argument. I was just giving my opinion and got bashed for it.
I said "for those interested"
If discussions on this board are going to get nasty everytime someone suggests something, maybe I won't bother posting any longer.
Heartworm Preventative
Currently I am not using anything. I used to use Sentinel. If I lived in a higher risk area, or if I travel this summer to a high risk area, I will definately use a heartworm preventative prescribed by my vet.
Hardly..
I'd hardly call it bashing or nasty. If you can question someone's use of their preventative protocol, you should expect the same of yours.
No questions...
There should be no "questioning" of anybody's protocol for anything in this forum. What I see this forum for, is a place for suggestions etc. so we can all make our own informative decision. I don't want anybody telling me what I should or shouldn't do with raising my animals. I will read each and every suggestion and take them all into account and choose the method that works best for myself and my animals. This happens way too often in this forum.... Very strong-willed opinionated people here. I love to see discussions about different methods that people use for their goldens and what works well for them. This is being informative and sharing of information. I have learned so much from this forum and I have for sure tried many things shared here.
Lets keep the information coming, but no need to get nasty or testy about anything. To each their own.
Heather
Questions
Absolutely questions are allowed here. It's all part of the discussion.
A difference.
There is a definate difference in asking questions, compared to questioning someones advice or method.
Heather
Reasons
This is in general, and not directed towards Maggie. I will continue to ask questions because I'm really tired of new pet owners coming on this board and reading someone's advice, thinking they are reading advice from an expert, and adopting their advice without a question. If someone is saying they have a better way to do something, I'd like us all to know WHY their way is better, not just accept as fact.
Questions, Comments, etc.
I agree with Heather's statement 100% about the difference between asking questions and questioning the motives of others. there are better ways to spread information and encourage open and lively discussions.
maggie, i understand that you were just giving your opinion and you really shouldn't feel bashed for giving it. like lisa said, some people need to (and should) know the why behind any argument. i don't think anyone was posting with the intent to be mean or nasty. continue to post with confidence in what you're doing for YOUR dogs but also, try posting in threads that don't deal only with food or vaccination issues, etc. we only ever hear from you when it's to promote barf or raw feeding or alternatives to traditional veterinary medicine.
Agreed....
I agree Lisa, asking questions to be more educated is what this forum is for. If new owners choose to listen to anybody here, that is up to them if they don't want to do the research. I am very happy with all the advice given on this forum, and I have learned a lot. These so called "experts" are very knowledgeable, well researched people that want to give people something to think about, nothing the matter with that. I have been thankful many times for these people, as I have turned to them for advice when needed and they are more than happy to help, without judging. Its up to me as an individual to take that advice or not.
Heather
discussions
Actually, I felt a little like people jumped all over Maggie in this post, which I don't like to see, I felt it was the same with Vanessa's prong collar comments the other day. Attacking the issue is fine, but we all should make more of a conscious effort to avoid attacking the person posting, as opposed to immediately reacting, usually in defense. I agree with Heather's comments above, I think it is the responsibility of the forum reader not to take these posts as gospel.
To chime in on the heartworm issue, since I haven't yet, most would probably be surprised to hear that I still vaccinate and I still give prescription heartworm meds (Sentinel this year), even though I have been BARF-ing Jonesie for almost 2 years now. As with my own health, I'm finding the combination of natural methods and traditional methods can be beneficial as well.
Tanja
My choice
After talking it over with my breeder and my vet. I don't treat for Heartworm at all. It really depends what area you live in. In Southern Ontario
there have been very few cases of Heartworm.
I do, however,get my Golden tested every year.
According to my Vet. this is a valid way of "treating" Heartworm. Even if the test comes back positive it is treatable. The key is to get the blood test every year.
Black Walnut info
I just was typing the heading to this post when my healthy and happy Dixie came pelting down the stairs to stay with me as I typed. I - like all the Golden owners on this site - would never knowingly do anything to hurt or injure my furkid. I do appreciate any and all information posted on this site - and enjoy looking into some of the issues, and doing some research myself.
Maggie, thanks for your post about the Black Walnut method of Heartworm treatment. While I will think long and hard about using a botanical extract that has in the past killed my mother's entire garden, I still am interested in checking out botanical products.
Feeling free to share snippits of information is a good thing - and as has been said, some will choose to act on the information, and others will prefer not to. That is alright - we are free to choose what and how we treat or do not treat our Golden children. Disagreements - as long as they are about the information and not about the person posting - is ok too - that is called a discussion in a free society. Keeping personal attacks and insults out of the discussion goes a long way towards encouraging others to add their opinion/knowledge to enrich all of us who read/post here.
Thanks Maggie, for your information!
Ruth & Dixie
Thank you
Tanya and Ruth, I appreciate it. Like I said I was only giving information that I had found and thought people would be interested in. I have since found a less toxic way to prevent heartworm. less toxic than black walnut. less toxic than the traditional chemical way.
I understand that everyone has their own way of taking care of their animals.
I do post on this board on topics other than raw feeding and no-vacc etc. I just haven't got the time to respond to all the wonderful stuff people are doing with their goldies.
Mags
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